Curse

Zabe · May 25, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

First I was a bit disappointed, but in overall good update. The PvE armor things etc are good and in long way thinking the PvP system is good. Those who really play with PvE characters will still look better, I was afraid that every match would be with 8 guys in fows + other endgame skins if the system would be unlockable.

The urgoz farm nerf was good and I knew it was coming, too easy way to get those zodiacs, otherwise not so good farm at all.

Cass · May 25, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Armor update seems very nice. About time those Tyrian & Canthan sets got some attention. Possibly this also fixed the bug with non-insignia armors not giving their intended bonuses (i.e., Tormentors and others)?
Am quite happy personally that all my old armors have gained flexibility at no cost to me. I trust the appearance (old dye coloring) has not been affected... can't check until later.

Question for Anet: Can we possibly expect a similar global change to inscibable weapons at some point or is that very unlikely?

PvP skin rewards seem appropriate, I can live with this from the sounds of it. Rewarding Hero battles is still stupid, but obviously part of Anet's pushing HvH strategy.

Urgoz nerf is good, possibly not elegant, but that's how quick fixes often are (SR anyone lol). It's a shame though that the "Anet Taketh" approach actually rewards those who exploited it-- their zodiacs will rise in price. Kind of like what happened with the Henge sword; taking it away made it rare. Again, the natural consequence of a quick fix. Better a quick fix than no fix though.
For those of you still thinking that there is farm code despite claims to the contrary; there have been actual tests of drops reported here on Guru (dev forum I think) where someone did 50 farm runs. It was amazingly random. No scaling whatsoever. Educate yourselves before you shout off.

manitoba1073 · May 25, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

If every chaos axe that drops is 15 over 50, do you really think prices would stay the same?

Say it with me, the age old mantra of economics: supply and demand.

If there's more chaos axes around, they're worth less, and more people have chaos axes. You do realize that perfect chaos axes are worth a lot right now because they're rare, right? Right?

1st off this isnt real world the economics in GW like that dont apply like they do in the real world. Just go to Kamadan and tell me how cheap all the inscribale stuff is, then think how much cheaper it would be if there wasnt inscriptions. The only things that will bring prices down like that is if they start to drop like candy and heavy farming. Look at colossal scimitars and dead swords to see what i mean. Look what was going on with Zodiacs till this nerf happened they were dropping in prices fast, but they will go back up now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Despite the cleverness of someone figuring out how to cheese Urgoz -- and I'll sure "cheese" instead of "exploit" if you prefer

-- it was not practical to leave that little "something" in place. Sure some of you like the loopholes. Sure some of you don't like getting stopped from a fountain of income for just about zero effort. Pennies from heaven and all that. But despite comments to the contrary, those were ill-gotten gains, far in excess of that intended, far over what you could or should realistically earn in any given period of time.

And yet we are expected to do maximum effort for minimal returns. I E Loot Scaling. Now you argue thats its not right for a group of ppl to get less than a person soloing,but the person soloing is also killing that many more on there own than a group which regardless is easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

For those of you still thinking that there is farm code despite claims to the contrary; there have been actual tests of drops reported here on Guru (dev forum I think) where someone did 50 farm runs. It was amazingly random. No scaling whatsoever. Educate yourselves before you shout off.

Yes you are partially right there. The types of drops are random but loot scaling did add a form of farm code in its self. By limiting the number of drops to how many are in a group.

Dr Strangelove · May 25, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

1st off this isnt real world the economics in GW like that dont apply like they do in the real world.

Pray tell, how does supply and demand not apply?

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

The only things that will bring prices down like that is if they start to drop like candy and heavy farming.

So... supply and demand doesn't apply, but if supply goes up because of farming, prices drop. Right.

Longasc · May 25, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Time to buy some Tyrian armors!

I do not care for the other stuff in this upgrade, Insignias for old armors is what I was asking for for... ages!

This update is a dream come true. Now add Inscription drops with GW:EN.

Creeping Carl · May 25, 2007, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

And yet we are expected to do maximum effort for minimal returns. I E Loot Scaling. Now you argue thats its not right for a group of ppl to get less than a person soloing,but the person soloing is also killing that many more on there own than a group which regardless is easier.

Get over it already. They fixed an obviously broken farming spot and you had your time to take advantage of it. Just be thankful you got something out of it. Stop crying and whining about it in every post that you make. Heck you even made a thread about it that got closed.

boko · May 25, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Nice update... Urgoz and Deep looks really tempting now O.o ... looks like one of the most profitable run around ...inscribable zodiac FTW

PvP rewards is good, i'll just make a permanent pvp char and use another spot for pvp versatility. Good stuff Anet! GG!

Jack Keaton · May 25, 2007, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Sorry but this will be another unfriendly message.
I am greatly bothered by the pvp rewards my only option to not give up a mini pet or 110 pts is to buy a new slot if i were to join a gvg role that was not a created character. 110/150 I spent collecting in a months time not playing a thousand time meta I had to fight over and over and over which was an unbalanced Heal as One build btw. Now at my rate of collecting them like this, this being a reply to those embracing the idea of pvp onlys not getting fancy FoW, it would take 10 months just for the 2nd tier of armor which is probly not even close to FoW for each individual character I play in pvp. Maybe people have been not putting the point out without insulting gaile but i hope my example does I spent every chance I could this past month joining HvH which was 2 - 1 times a day 1 time a school day. I gave a number of people a run for their money with a custom build but finding out enduring the imba meta led to this I am very disapointed and when Gaile didnt even say one thing about the pvp i was ready to walk away from all of it for a long time.

I will come back to check and see if I'm getting a decent response to this fact or if I'm just going to get a don't delete your character speech,basicaly I'm just trying to say if it took me that long joining each one imagine the casual 1 time a weeker right now i feel like I wasted a month enduring the blasted r/p meta.

Spazzer · May 25, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Glad I can finally put Survivors insignias on my Sacred armor. =)

Hobbs · May 25, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

I think making proph and factions drop inscribable would be a bad thing, admittedly i'd like my otherwise perfect 15 -5 Chaos Axe to be 15^50, but that doesn't matter as much to me as a Purple Crystalline dropped in FoW becoming 15^50. IMO 15^50 Crystallines and other such items should only drop in HoH, despite me being a primarily PvE player.

With regard to the Urgoz nerf, I did the run maybe 10 times yesterday (when I found out about it). I found it very boring and monotonous unlike some other farms. I agree that it was an oversight by Anet when they released HM, but thats why pencils have erasers.

When the official wiki came out I thought it wouldn't be long until it was intergrated into the game but I expected it to be viewed in a panel inside the game window, rather than the somewhat cheap way they did it.

Reward points, I don't really think i'm qualified to talk on because all i've seen about it are the fairly biased details i've seen here. But from these details I have picked up a certain idea that I may not like what I find

Eroth · May 25, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Long overdue update Anet, but good job on it. Wasn't expecting the help thing...and speaking of

You can convert armor insignias, redesign many armor names, MAKE a new armor, and put a built in help system intergrated with guild wars, but you can't convert Factions and Prophicies weapons to accept inscriptions. Geez.

prism2525 · May 25, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

they are not gonna make existing weapons in Prophecies and factions inscribable.

Heck then I would kill myself for merching the req 8 phoenix blade just b/c it had crap inherent mods.

I MP I · May 25, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Oh forgot to say thanks for the insigniable armor update! Now my characters can do something with their 15k canthan and tyrian armors sitting in their inventory. Making stuff useful is great!

nephotep · May 25, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

pvp rewards need massive amount of reward points. a single armor piece is 20 points! a basic weapon is 10... so except for the pr0 guilds we wont see many exotic pvp weapon around...

My Green Storage · May 25, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Next Update needed:
Treasure Chests/Do Not Touch/Buried Treasure being reset/refilled for my ele.

Seriously, it's sad my (technically 2nd) oldest character has the free chests unlock like evey 2-3 months, but my Ranger, Rit and a few others had them reset yesterday (Or maybe even earlier, noticed it yesterday though)

8.5 million experience in 8 months and she can't even get free stuff?

As for the updates, it's a nice idea about the Urgoz/Deep chest thing. Plenty of times in Urgoz (As it usually takes 2x longer then Deep with PUGs) I thought, "Well this is a freakin piece of .. I waste 3 hours with these idiots for nothing."

Atleast now a chests spawns.

As for the Urgoz farm. Good.
I did that run about 100 - 130 times since I found it out on here (1.5 weeks?). The last 20-35 times I went in, I brought traps just to spice it up because of how brain numbing that farm was.

You did nothing but set up spirits and let the guys kill themselves. WTF?

Well, Now my Perfect +5e Req 9, Req 9, 10 and 11 15^50 Longbows are back to being worth something (That I obtained from chests in Urgoz/Deep

).

And before any of you Urgoz farmers start complaining .. go look me up in the farming area, and find my posts.
I'm certainly not against farming. But this area was pretty damn cheap.

Frank Dudenstein · May 25, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

I can't explain how disappointed I am about the PvP rewards. Such a great idea executed so poorly.

For you pve-ers who don't seem to understand WHY this is so bad, let me explain:

THe ENTIRE prupose of the PvP Character idea (and skill unlocks) is so you can delete and remake whatever new character you need without having to grind out the PVE. That means virtually ALL pvp-ers delete and remake their characters regularly (ie more than once per day for most of us). Along goes the rewards into the trash bin.

So no, we don't NEED cool weapons ... or epeen, or whatever you want to call it. But what is the purpose of spending all of that development time implementing a system that is completely worthless??? (not to mention getting the hopes up of lots of pvp-ers). Why did they bother? They could been working on something else!!!!

I just don't get it. Anet DOES HAVE pvp-ers on staff .. I play with a couple of them ... THEY TOO HAVE DEDICATED PVP SLOTS THAT THEY REMAKE REGULARLY! I just don't understand how they could miss (or worse deliberately do) something like this.

JeniM · May 25, 2007, 11:18 AM // 11:18

would unlocking a skin in PvE and being able to creat that skin for any PvP player be crazy (same way you unlock runes/upgrades)? Cos that would be nice (and may shut some of these PvP'ers up)

Also the IDS bit i don't get. This will make it rarer? so the only way to get any is to say somehow farm 24/7. Sorry but IF i read it right it seems to favor bots. (if i read it worng ignore this bit)

boko · May 25, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

Also the IDS bit i don't get. This will make it rarer? so the only way to get any is to say somehow farm 24/7. Sorry but IF i read it right it seems to favor bots. (if i read it worng ignore this bit)

Actually, it would drop more than before actually... ("before" as before this update but after lootscaling)

Lootscaling reduced the drops of white and blue to 1/8...and since old IDS was blue, it was affected by lootscaling.

Making it gold, exempt it from lootscaling, so its droprate is not reduced to 1/8. In theory, it should drop more. Hope it does makes sense and stand in actual gameplay.

Frank Dudenstein · May 25, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

would unlocking a skin in PvE and being able to creat that skin for any PvP player be crazy (same way you unlock runes/upgrades)? Cos that would be nice

That would work ... but I don't see it happenening for 2 reasons:
1. The whole reason they are doing this is to make a system where you can PVP only and get cool stuff. This is an awesome goal (albeit implemented very poorly).
2. PVE-ers would scream bloody murder

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

(and may shut some of these PvP'ers up)

lol .... nice . .. we all know how completely measured and reasonable the PVE community is when ANET screws up. Mr Pot, let me introduce you to Mrs Kettle.

Wolvine · May 25, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Despite the cleverness of someone figuring out how to cheese Urgoz -- and I'll sure "cheese" instead of "exploit" if you prefer

-- it was not practical to leave that little "something" in place. Sure some of you like the loopholes. Sure some of you don't like getting stopped from a fountain of income for just about zero effort. Pennies from heaven and all that. But despite comments to the contrary, those were ill-gotten gains, far in excess of that intended, far over what you could or should realistically earn in any given period of time.

if any one of you can say that you truly believe "That was the way that was intended to work, we're playing the game with mechanics that did not require another look and did not require fixing" then I'm afaid I'm going to have to disagree. Or call you delusional. Your choice.

For those who don't know about the situation in Urgoz, it went like this: Enter area, cast a few spirits, run like heck while monsters with bad AI suicide against the spirits, dropping bountiful golds and other items. Wash rinse and repeat. In about 30 seconds.

Brilliant gameplay against solid game design, or a bug or exploitable bit of code that needed fixing? You figure it out.

Edit: We are not against farming. We've lifted the blooming anti-farming code!

We're against leaving in place an error that resulted in those capitalizing upon it gaining undeserved income, putting a hit on those who did not know of the "something" or chose not to use it.

Personally I agree with Gaile all anet are doing is making farming more interesting as you can see every time they have so called nerfd a run or made an area harder the farming community has taken up the challenge and has adapted to the updates. Which in the whole makes farming more fun and challenging as personally you can get bored very fast doing the same run 30 time in a row (usually I do it max of 3 times then I am bored)

.

With regards to the start of Urgoz I believe they could have left the xp

in place and removed the drops except vampiric fangs as groups should still get the XP is they are able to kill these creatures without using the spirit/ ritual suicide style of play. So that players get some thing from killing these creature at the start of the mission.